Friday, May 25, 2007

Smart Men and Dating

Smart guys usually don't do as well with women as dumb guys (unless they're loaded). David Deangelo, the dating guru, laid it out pretty fairly:




It BLOWS MY MIND how many smart guys I meet
that just don't GET IT when it comes to basic
social skills.

It's as if they have logically reasoned that
social skills are for lower beings who need to
play games... and not worth the time it would take
to learn them.

In fact, I believe that there are a lot of
smart guys running around this planet who don't
even have "social skills" and "be a cool guy that
people like" in their MENTAL MODEL of what it
could possibly take to be successful with women
and dating.

Social skills are just that... SKILLS.

They're not social INFORMATION.

They're not social THEORIES.

They're social SKILLS.

And you don't get them by THINKING about them.
You get them by GETTING them.

Excellent social skills are the foundation for
good communication with other humans... and if you
don't have good social skills, you dramatically
lower your chances for success with women.




NEWS JUST IN: Women don't feel ATTRACTION for
men who make them THINK.

Women feel ATTRACTION for men who make them

So what do most smart guys do when they first
meet a woman?



I'm shaking my head right now...

Smart men try to engage women in LOGICAL
conversations and interactions because that's
where THEY feel comfortable... not knowing that

Get this: A monkey sitting at a typewriter will
type the collected works of Shakespeare before you
will make a woman feel ATTRACTION for you by
engaging her in logical conversation.

When you start a logical conversation with a
woman you've just met, you are basically taking
out a NEON SIGN that says, "I don't get it when it
comes to women" and putting it on your head.

Typical "logical" conversations include talking
about work, family, school, and jobs... discussing
politics, religion, weather... and anything that
has to do with math, science, or INTELLIGENCE.

On the other hand, if you start talking to a
woman and you say, "OK, so tell me something...
Why is it that all women say that they want sweet,
nice guys... but they all date sexy, selfish, bad
boys?" (and then make fun of any answer she gives)
Now you're having an EMOTIONAL conversation.


Smart people usually have time to THINK about

If you're taking a test, you can sit there and
work out the answers.

If you have a math problem, you can work on it
until you've figured it out.

If you're trying to fix something, you can keep
working on it until it's fixed.

Smart guys are used to being able to take at
least a LITTLE bit of time to prepare and show off
their "good sides" in most situations.

Not so with women...

If you don't know what to do at every step
along the way, you'll be shut down very quickly.

Women have an AMAZING "He doesn't get it" radar

Women have all kinds of subtle and ingenious
tests that they throw at men to separate the "get
its" from the "don't get its".

And if you don't get it, then you're going to
fail one of these tests VERY quickly.

But the worst part is that you won't ever KNOW
that you were being tested... OR that you failed.

Smart guys aren't used to dealing with complex
EMOTIONAL and COMMUNICATION challenges in the
moment... and especially the "women and dating"

One of they keys to becoming more successful
with women and dating is learning to handle all of
the tests that women throw at you effortlessly.

But before you can learn how to deal with the
tests, you must first learn how to communicate on
an emotional level, how to demonstrate that you
have fundamental social skills, and how to keep
your cool in the moment.


A smart guy's STRENGTH is his MIND.

His WEAKNESS is often his EMOTIONS.

Smart guys are often IMMOBILIZED by FEAR.

Totally stopped.


And since many smart guys aren't comfortable
dealing with things they're not good at, they just
repress or RUN away from fear.

Many men would rather DIE in lonely isolation
than admit that they don't know how to deal with
their emotions... or, GOD FORBID, ask for help!

Hey, I went for YEARS like this.

I know what it's like.

But the reality is that any guy can learn to
handle and even MASTER his emotions (even fear)...
if he just takes the time and effort to learn HOW
to do it.

If this is you, then do yourself a big favor...
take the time. Take the effort.

Don't worry about what anyone else thinks of
you... it doesn't matter.

What matters is you doing the things that YOU
need to do FOR YOU.

...I think the reason why I'm so fascinated
with "The Genius Failure Paradox" is because I
have had to struggle with all of these issues for
a lot of years of my life.

Now, I'm not saying that I'm the smartest guy
on the planet...

But, I don't think mamma raised no fool.

And it always bothered the hell out of me that
even though I was so good at figuring things out,
I couldn't figure WOMEN out.

Something tells me that you know what I'm
talking about.

Well, after beating my head against the wall
for a few years... trying all kinds of crazy
"logical" stuff... I finally got the "bright" idea
to start studying guys who were "naturally" good
with women.

Of course, I found out that you could be both
same time.

I also learned that you can be SMART and VERY

By carefully studying what the "naturals" did
with women... and learning how they "thought"
about the topic, I began to realize that success
with women wasn't entirely LOGICAL.

Much of what I learned was very tough for me to
accept... because my logical brain just didn't
want to buy into it.

One thing I saw was guys pushing women away
from them... and having the women then chase them
in response.

Made no sense at all.

I saw guys tease beautiful women and make jokes
about them to their faces... and then watched
those women become "little girls" in response...
unable to maintain their composure and therefore
unable to maintain their manipulative power...

It took me quite a long time, but I continued
to learn, test, and refine what I was learning
until I personally figured out how to approach
women in any situation... get any woman's number I
wanted anytime I wanted... date any type of woman
I wanted...

...and most importantly, GET RID of that
"empty" feeling that I carried around my whole
life because I didn't know how to attract women.

Anyway, these ideas are interesting, and we can, to some degree, apply them to the asian-white-black dating issue. Also, it can illustrate how dysgenic trends can come about in a state with a welfare system.


Well Caffeinated said...

Nice insight. :D

Dog of Justice said...

What if you're not primarily interested in beautiful women, and you aren't interested in having sex with lots of different women, instead you just want to find one smart one to talk to and raise (probably smart) children with? (Yeah, I don't want someone who's actively ugly, but I couldn't care less about the distinction between a "5" and a "10".) The best strategy for this preference must be at least a little bit different than the norm.

I understand that some concessions are still necessary, of course, but some of the ones described by Deangelo are actively counterproductive w.r.t. my goals. E.g. while logical conversations certainly decrease overall success with women, they preferentially filter out the IQ <120 women who I'd be bored to death with and thus would never want to waste time on anyway.

So what do you see as the most efficient approach for someone like me to take? I'm definitely not the only guy like this.

(Yes, I do realize that the supply of IQ >= 120 women in the US who are at least a "4" or "5" is probably insufficient to meet demand, so my current backup plan is to arbitrage the one thing I do clearly have going for me, my American upbringing, and marry someone from China or Taiwan. But I figure I should first give the US mating market a shot.)

TabooTruth said...

Ha, so go to the old white guy-asian girl thing. Hey, its worked for millions, so why not you? There are going to be alot more angry asian males in the coming decades, though, so good luck.

Anyway, I'm not so sure even if the +120 IQ women will go for smart guys. I've seen many of them hook up with dumb jocks. No matter how smart the woman is, she is still addicted to emotions.

Dysgenics continues!

Well Caffeinated said...

If you're going on the idea of first impressions, it's probably a lot easier to attract a woman on an emotional level of communication than an intellectual one. For a first impression you have a very short amount of time. I'd guess that if one were to try to gain a woman's interest using intelligence, it might come off as pretentious.

I've never really thought about it before. I'm going to have to try both methods and see... :D

Dog of Justice said...

Ha, so go to the old white guy-asian girl thing. Hey, its worked for millions, so why not you? There are going to be alot more angry asian males in the coming decades, though, so good luck.

Actually, I'm Chinese. None of my ancestors had to deal with competition with other races in the mating market, so it's quite plausible that in the US I'm "unfit" in a Darwinian sense.

My Darwinian fitness should be fine in China or Taiwan, though. And given that the US elite seems interested in conceding the 21st century to East Asia before the fight has even begun (hi, Ted Kennedy)... hmm, should I even bother with the US mating market at all?

Anyway, I'm not so sure even if the +120 IQ women will go for smart guys. I've seen many of them hook up with dumb jocks. No matter how smart the woman is, she is still addicted to emotions.

The question is, can such a woman be reliably "tricked" into a more cerebral relationship? Or will she probably dump me once I phase out the dumb jock facade I had to put up to initially attract her, in which case I'd be better off not wasting my time on her at all?

MensaRefugee said...

Yup. Intelligence is definitely an aberration of nature.

About smart peeps and dating, especially smart men. Leaving aside any racial differences, I think the problem is smart peeps try to impose a dichotomy instead of a continuum.

By dichotomy I mean "win" or "lose"
If a man is having a conversation with a girl and there is some kind of slip up or hiccup, what they should do is tango on. Try to minimize the slip up, or keep talking about whatever the topic is, and feigning interest along the way.

What a smart guy will do is try to go back to before the slip up and start over. Its almost an instinctive behaviour.

Apart from that, smarter peeps are geared towards long term relationships by nature - so they tend to be more honest and aware of what they want - both of which militate against charm. A dumb guy uses environmental cues to figure out when he has "scored" and convinces himself along the way that that is what he wanted. A smart one sticks to a pre-defined script and considers it stooping to say only whatever works.


TabooTruth said...


I'm still trying to wrap my head around your comment. It's true, but I'm trying to figure out when I did it and how not to do it again.

MensaRefugee said...

To expand on my second point, that smart peeps are more honest.
On the surface it seems like a blatantly self congratulatory statement. But it has a very little recognized real world truth to it.

Consider this quote from Charles Murray's article "Simple Justice"

"The judge is supposed to be able to see through all that and accurately assess whether the offender is really, truly sorry for what he did and is going to change his ways. It is an absurd premise. Indeed, even when the offender does feel genuine remorse, that doesn't mean the offender will stop offending. Two other characteristics of criminals are impulsiveness and a short time horizon. Offenders can be really, truly sorry for what they did today and be back on the streets doing it again a week from now. As police and probation officers will tell you, it happens all the time."

(See full interesting article here its part 2 of a two parter)

The criminals in this case felt genuine remorse. Thats the key point.

Applying this to the topic at hand. Lets say, when we meet a pretty girl with a good personality - the 'hormonal' effect is the same on both smart men and dumb men. If we could freeze time, whisk them away and fill them with truth serum and ask them to expound on their thoughts - BOTH would give the same answer. Somethings along the line of " I really care for her. Im concerned about her welfare, and I feel protective about her" etc etc

The key point is just like the criminal with genuine remorse the dumb guy will lather on this "caring" emotion without any prick of self-consciousness. To him it is a reality thanks to his low time horizon. The smart guy will feel some form of cognitive dissonance which will make his feelings non-genuine.

I have a post on my site about sexual utopia which quite clearly propounds my view on related topics. 35 pages (!!) but worth a read.

Anonymous said...

A lack of social skills can have something to do with my smart guys fail, but a lack of ethical senses can have a lot to do with why dumb guys succeed. Confidence is attractive, okay, but acting confident when you have no actual talent is a form of deception. A smarter person with a stronger understanding of ethics will have more trouble with the notion of starting a romantic relationship on a lie. A dumber person won't even notice it is a lie. I'm not talking about retarded people of course, I'm talking about good-looking slow-witted people who have countless experiences of intimidating people, assisted by their own lack of introspection and inability to accurately assess their own limitations.

I don't believe the above thesis is perfect, and I don't believe the smart-guys-lack-social-skills thesis is worthless. I only present the above to balance the picture a little.

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